In this episode…

What happens when decades of Wall Street experience meets the witness stand? Mike Evans takes us behind the scenes of financial expert witnessing in this revealing conversation about bridging the gap between complex regulatory requirements and practical implementation.

Drawing from his extensive career at Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, and BNP Paribas, Evans explains how he transitioned from compliance officer to expert witness. His journey offers insight navigating the delicate balance between technical expertise and effective communication. “The compliance angle is how these things get implemented,” Evans explains, highlighting the unique value he brings to legal proceedings where understanding the gap between written policies and actual practice often determines case outcomes.

The conversation delves into practical aspects of expert witnessing that professionals rarely discuss openly. From managing relationships with attorneys and negotiating clear engagement terms to preparing for testimony and maintaining composure under pressure, Evans shares candid insights gained through real-world experience. His approach to testimony—making eye contact with finders of fact, speaking clearly, and maintaining unwavering integrity—provides a roadmap for aspiring expert witnesses.

Perhaps most valuable is Evans’ philosophy toward expert work, encapsulated in his father’s advice: “Say what you mean and mean what you say.” This commitment to consistency and truthfulness allows him to navigate complex cases with multiple attorneys while maintaining credibility. For attorneys working with financial experts and for professionals considering expert witnessing, this episode offers rare insights into effective collaboration at the intersection of finance and law.

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Note: Transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.

Host: Noah Bolmer, Round Table Group

Guest: Mike Evans, Founder of VEGA Compliance Consulting

Noah Bolmer: Welcome to Engaging Experts. I’m your host, Noah Bolmer, and today’s guest is Mike Evans, founder of VEGA Compliance Consulting, a risk management firm specializing in the financial services sector. He has extensive experience in capital investments, hedge funds, and more. He’s a sought-after expert witness and holds an MBA from Stern. Mr. Evans, thank you for joining me today on Engaging Experts.

Mike Evans: Thanks, Noah. Thanks for having me.

Noah Bolmer: You’ve had a decades long career in financial services, but how did you first become involved in expert witnessing?

Mike Evans: I fell into expert witnessing through an old colleague at Lehman Brothers. This was long after Lehman Brothers went defunct. They had met up with somebody doing some expert work on Wall Street topics, not compliance and risk management, but he thought with my decades of experience at Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, and then BNP that people could utilize my knowledge and experience.

Noah Bolmer: Were you familiar with expert work at the time at all?

Mike Evans: No. I had helped with some fact witnesses and helped prep people in my role as compliance—Chief Compliance Officer and compliance subject matter expert in certain trading areas. I’d helped people prepare for trial, but I’d never done any expert witnessing myself, and litigation was two steps away from my general practice.

Noah Bolmer: Did the individual who helped you get started show you the ropes, tell you what to expect, or [did] you hit the ground running, get a call for a potential engagement, and answer a bunch of questions?

Mike Evans: A little bit of each. I had a couple of books to read to freshen up on it and he pointed me to a few websites, so I did my own research on that and tried to work at learning the industry from that angle. The subject matter came easy to me, but the process and networking of litigators versus classic compliance advisors was a little different.

Noah Bolmer: How long ago did you first get started as an expert witness?

Mike Evans: Two years ago. Not too long ago. Between my career in big shops on Wall Street and the time that I started expert witnessing, I caught the entrepreneurial bug and started my own hedge fund. That gave me another interesting angle. It never took off. There was this thing called COVID and an invasion in Ukraine [which] made it difficult to generate alpha in the hedge fund space. I did it for a couple of years. I managed a few million from friends and family, but I could not get to the assets under management to make it a billion-dollar venture that of course every hedge fund manager wants. After two years, I went back to my knitting as a compliance expert, but I held on to the entrepreneurial bug, did some advisory and consulting work, started VEGA, and the expert witness work was the next logical step.

Noah Bolmer: How do you manage your schedule with so many different things going on- spinning lots of plates. If you get a potential engagement, everything seems fine. How do you ensure that you have enough time to give it your all?

Mike Evans: I try to be honest with everybody as much as possible. Sometimes you don’t know, you get jammed and have a couple late nights. Entrepreneurs are used to working late, on weekends, and juggling or spinning plates, as you say. It’s part of being an entrepreneur. I try and manage it as best I can, leaving a bit of time for family, friends, and relaxation. If that doesn’t happen for a month or two because you’re back-to-back, so be it.

Noah Bolmer: Let’s talk a little about those phone calls. What are the questions that you’re asked and what are the questions you like to ask to ensure that it’s going to be a good engagement that makes sense for both parties?

Mike Evans: I like to make sure that I am the right expert in these things. It’s particular. For example, I’m not a CPA. I don’t have my JD. I’ve got a master’s in business and that’s my focal point. It was the business—in this case banks, hedge funds, and broker dealers. People who are getting sued or potentially suing their counterparties. Are they in need of someone who understands from the inside how governance procedures work? How do controls get implemented? [Much] of what I see from the attorney side is “I know the regulations. I know how their short sale will work. I know how people are supposed to do due diligence on their clients.”  I respect that from a regulatory standpoint. I agree, the lawyers have training, knowledge, and can read the law themselves. The compliance angle, which is a little bit more interesting and is valuable to them, is how do these things get implemented? Generally, a lawyer will have a case where the policy says that you have to do X, Y, and Z within the organization, and they’re saying, “That couldn’t have been done, or else my client would have would not have been harmed.” I can step in and say, “Those policies and procedures were market standard. That’s true, but they weren’t implemented properly. The wrong person was doing the wrong thing at the wrong time.” Or “This committee didn’t meet and actually discuss what they should have done.” From a compliance standpoint, it’s important to get those things right, and if they’re not right, you can compare the policies and procedures, which generally are received as part of discovery, versus the e-mail trail that says, “This person just skipped those two steps and moved on.” Then you find out that’s a problem. There’s the helpfulness for somebody who’s been in compliance, grown up in that space for 25 to 30 years, almost, and I have all the licenses, etcetera, etcetera. The experience working your way up into the point of being the Chief Compliance Officer, having teams to manage, and doing all of that, makes me a valuable resource.

Noah Bolmer: Have you ever been brought in as a consultant and had that job shift towards an expert witness, or towards a potential expert witness, that got brought in for some information to educate the attorney a bit but have them say, “This might go to court, can I also put you on the stand.” Have you had one of those?

Mike Evans: I’m in the middle of that right now. Again, it’s only been two years and- but I have to say one of my first cases has been dragging on. There’s been a motion to dismiss, and it’s been quiet for a while. I was simply brought on as a consultant and my engagement letter said, “We just need you as a consultant.” No, notion yet of a testifying expert or writing an expert report at this point, but it’s certainly—I did my due diligence on all of the items that were part of their discovery, etcetera. Now they are at a point where they’re saying, “Would you be willing to say that on the stand?” Of course. Everything I’ve told them is honest, forthright and if I didn’t believe it one hundred percent, I wouldn’t be telling my client that in the first place. Of course I can tell the jury and the judge the same thing.

Noah Bolmer: Does that complicate your engagement letter at all? Do you ever have certain breakouts like, “These are my rates?” “This is my retainer, but if it goes to trial, we have to do these other things.” Do you have to renegotiate? Is everything encapsulated in your initial agreement?

Mike Evans: It’s not necessarily encapsulated, but it’s more of an add-on than a full renegotiation. My rates are standard, so whether on just doing the research, reading the material, doing my own independent fact gathering of the citations, or testifying in a case I charge the same rate, so people aren’t going to be surprised with what happens. As long as we have an overall budget- that’s one of the things that that could go wrong. I would advise other people just stepping into it, one of my first experiences was that we didn’t have a full budget. At least I didn’t understand what it was. The agent who had presented me to the client, to the law firm, didn’t have that open channel of communication, I think. Once my third or fourth bill went through and they were a little bit in arrears, they had a little sticker shock after a while. They said, “Now let’s start. Let’s tell you that the budget was X, not Y, and we need to scale things back.” That was a bit of an eye opener for me. I’m going to try not to let that happen and find out early on when the engagement is—when we engage, is this a $50,000 budget or a $500,000 budget? Where are we here?

Noah Bolmer: So you think as an expert witness, you should have a proactive approach in terms of making sure that there’s a meeting of the minds vis-à-vis the engagement letter before you begin work.

Mike Evans: Sure. I try and—I adapt different aspects of the engagement letter for every engagement because I’ll learn something. The lawyer will come back and say, “Do you really need this?” I say, “No. let’s change it to this.” If that’s more palatable to lawyers in general, I’ll make that part of my draft for the next time. It’s definitely a living document, but it’s important to have that document. I know some people do without it [a written engagement letter]. Maybe they’ve been doing it so long and they already have a good relationship with their attorneys and that’s great, but I like things, maybe because I’m the compliance guy, I like things in black and white. It’s got to be in writing, or it doesn’t exist, as far as the regulator is concerned, so that’s been my mantra as well.

Noah Bolmer: Any other red flags for those initial phone calls, or even down the road?

Mike Evans: Not too many. I’ve been pleasantly surprised. Everybody I’ve spoken with are professional and above board. Again, if you’re not the expert, you can help find one for people. Sometimes you can monetize that. But oftentimes it’s goodwill and I think building that goodwill, people pay it forward and that’s a positive for your karma and for your career. I’m happy to do that as well.

Noah Bolmer: You’ve been doing this for a couple of years. Have you found yourself on the stand yet?

Mike Evans: I have been in front of a FINRA arbitration panel and that was interesting. People were saying, “You better watch out for the deposition.” Or “You better watch out for the cross examination.” I felt invigorated to be there. I like the intellectual tête-à-tête. When you can spar through ideas. They recognize [that] I was the expert in this space, but that the opposing lawyer is going to challenge you on certain things. You can set the record yourself. It’s certainly not for the timid or faint of heart, but I do enjoy it. That was the best part. All the analysis that went into it, obviously, it is helpful, and it pays off, but I’m not the ivory tower type of guy who just wants to work on paper. I enjoy both the camaraderie, but also the engagement of the dialogue that gets through to the Socratic method and everything else that you do to try and find the truth in- between the facts. I have been and I’m already looking forward to the next one as well.

Noah Bolmer: Do you have any pre-trial ritual or routine that gets you ready- gets you in the right headspace to go in there? I have people who drink a ton of coffee, they fast, do yoga, or whatever it is. Do you have any kind of a routine that gets you ready to go?

Mike Evans: I definitely have two cups of coffee, but not three. Because you don’t want to break up the momentum once you’re out there and need that nature break. I like my caffeine, so I need a little of that. My other tips for people just starting out is make sure you have a decent suit. I wear a white shirt because I never want to throw things off. Look plain, simple, and professional. That’s important.

Noah Bolmer: Speaking of looking plain, simple, and professional, tell me a bit about demeanor. How do you use not only your expertise but your body language, and the manner in which you speak? How do you use these intangibles to better connect with whoever the fact finder is in the case?

Mike Evans: What helps me is having teenage kids. I’ve got three teenagers—well, now they’re beyond teenage kids, but one is still a teenager. Having to teach them how to communicate clearly and effectively and then practice what you preach is the same thing you have to do when you’re speaking professionally. When you’re in the chair and everybody’s focused on you. You want to enunciate and speak slowly. You would know because you’re a podcast and radio host type of guy, so it’s the same thing. You can’t slur your words. You can’t use too many acronyms and colloquial language. You should again speak professionally and clearly. The same things that you would tell your kids to do. Make eye contact and you’re making eye contact with the finders of fact. You don’t necessarily want to face the attorneys because the attorneys aren’t who you’re trying to help. You’re trying to help the finders of fact understand and that eye contact is important. In addition to speaking slowly, clearly, take a breath, make sure they understand what you’ve just said, and if they don’t, rephrase it.

Noah Bolmer: A couple of things. When you talk about making eye contact, have you done any telepresence depositions or actions of any kind? Where is eye contact? Do I look at the camera? Do I look at the window? What am I doing? How does technology change things?

Mike Evans: The most telepresence or Zoom/Teams/Google Meets, whatever your modus-operandi is, in my experience it has been speaking with the attorneys who are engaging with you. In the process of soliciting new clients, it’s probably more. I do the other stuff face to face as much as possible.

On the technology side, always make sure that you have a good bandwidth connection. Always test your connections before, 10 or 15 minutes before you go live. I often now tell my—I don’t want to say her name, smart speaker, to set an alarm 15-20 minutes early so that I can go in and test those things and make sure I don’t have problems during the important times to speak. There’s always a glitch here or there. Then have a backup plan. Everybody’s got their laptop, but you also have your phone. As long as you have a good signal on both, you’ll have a backup plan because I’ve had to resort to the backup a number of times.

Noah Bolmer: We were talking about an arbitration that you that you’re in the process of doing-

Mike Evans: One is closed, and a couple are live coming up.

Noah Bolmer: How is arbitration or any alternative dispute resolution type different for an expert witness compared to a formal trial? Are these types of arbitrations quasi-judicial, the more formal arbitrations or is this a more casual arbitration? I know that some that operate almost exactly like trials. There might be depositions. There might be reports. There might be discovery. Then sometimes it’s just a person that a couple people talk to and he’s like, you’re right, the other one’s wrong.

Mike Evans: I would say it’s somewhere in between. It certainly wasn’t a mediation or that casual one person. There were three people. In FINRA, you always have a majority or at least two non-industry arbitrators. In this case, there were three independent arbitrators. Although we were arguing over a broker dealer, and did they move money properly or improperly to the harm of the plaintiff, these people never worked at a broker dealer and aren’t licensed with their Series 7, so they don’t necessarily know the FINRA regulations that were potentially violated in the process here. They were smart, professional people. There was an accountant, a full-on CPA. There were two lawyers so they knew the law and the process, but they didn’t have to apply it the same way, obviously, that a courtroom would have applied the process. There are quasi judges you could say, but there’s—it’s a much more casual back and forth. No deposition was required. An expert report wasn’t required. I had written one and even had some material on top of that—demonstratives to help out, but it wasn’t required. Although there was—they had checked my qualifications. We had a discussion. There’s no—there was no Daubert challenge, motions in limine or anything like that. It was a mix between the two. Definitely more casual than a court case but no less serious. The outcome was millions of dollars for the plaintiff and the defendant. So, it’s clearly important, but I would say, maybe not as regimented.

Noah Bolmer: It’s interesting because there are so many permutation—types of arbitrations and court cases for that matter, that range that have a fairly broad range of formality. Have you worked in other venues? Either other states or perhaps at the federal level, or any criminal cases, anything like that? Have you worked in any different venues that have different rules that felt different to you as an expert witness?

Mike Evans: I haven’t appeared yet in those courts. I have two state cases and two federal cases. One in the Southern District of New York. One in Dallas, TX. I haven’t appeared yet and the process I have to say as a fairly new expert that I rely on the attorneys to walk me through some of this process. You’re not alone. The expert has to remember that they’re independent and they have to give the truth. They’re not advocating for either side, but they are being paid by, and working for one side, and that relationship that is built with the law firm is important. Those lawyers can certainly help you out. If you’re saying, “You have to write your citations this way, and footnotes here. Don’t footnote that.” That shouldn’t trip you up. It shouldn’t slow you down. You write the best you can and you can rely on those attorneys to help you polish your end product. Obviously, they’re not writing it. They shouldn’t be, but you can rely on them for that process. In the end, where you’re saying what’s the difference between a state court in California and a federal court in New York? I don’t know. I haven’t experienced those things yet. You tell me. I’m sure it’ll all work out.

Noah Bolmer: Do you feel that in general, attorneys have been good about prepping you on the things that you don’t know will be important?

Mike Evans: That can be—it’s funny that you asked because that can be hot or cold. My experience so far has been good, but I can feel like, we’re rushed now at the end. It’s a slow grind and maybe months of work getting the report that you want— just the way you want it. Addressing it using the right terminology, etc. etc. Then you’re quiet. You’re waiting for them to come back. Then, okay, “We’ve got two weeks. Let’s get it all done. Let’s make sure that we’re solid on absolutely everything.” It feels a bit tight at that point. Obviously, the slower the pace, the better you can with questions back and forth, and it can happen in another way. You have to be prepared for that too. Working on Wall Street and being that expert in compliance where you’re always facing off to the business, they’re challenging you and you have to challenge them back. You have to justify all of your actions. That has well prepared me for this part of my career.

Noah Bolmer: As somebody who is in a dynamic trade, how do you stay on top of it? In other words, how are you not only an expert, but how do you remain an expert in such a dynamic field?

Mike Evans: Luckily, Wall Street topics are always on the news, so you’re never going to miss something like that. I try and read. I ignore television as much as possible, and I read the Wall Street Journal every day or every other day. I also filter things. I make sure that my Google News shoots me only the relevant things. The cases that I’m interested in, if there’s an update to them, CourtListener or somebody’s going to send me an update so I’m going to stay on top of those particular cases. The news stories of the day, and I’ve been involved in some of them, have always appeared in either my inbox or I am doing it as part of my general reading. I enjoy reading the Wall Street Journal. It’s a great publication. I read Reuters and Bloomberg as well. I definitely try and stay away from MSNBC, Fox [News], and all the other talking heads on TV because you don’t get a lot of bang for your buck time wise. Before you know it an hour out of your day is gone and you haven’t learned anything. I suggest people read, but I’m old so who knows. Listen to good podcasts. There are a couple of good podcasts out there.

Noah Bolmer: An excellent podcast like Engaging Experts. Let’s move to the general for a moment. How do expert witnesses get off on the right foot on a new engagement? What are the general properties? What makes up a good engagement in general?

Mike Evans: Being prepared. As an expert, before you have that first meeting with somebody, have you read the complaint letter? Have you read the response to the complaint? Has been in the news? Maybe you want to read some news analysis if it’s a hot topic. If you know the parties. I’m dealing with former employers. Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, not Lehman Brothers anymore. That’s a done deal. But some of the people that I know are now employees. Lehman Brothers, for example, now is Diaspora. There are people at every bank and shop on Wall Street that I can talk to and say, “Are you familiar with this situation?” Maybe it’s not. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn’t. You can prepare well by utilizing—if you’re an expert, you know people who know things as well as you do, and you can get diverse opinions on topics. That’s important so that when you get to your discussion with your law firm, the law firm knows that you know this case in particular. Again, you should read the complaint and the response. But you also have a perspective that you’re bringing to it that they don’t have, and nobody else in the case has. That’s why you’re being engaged, to bring that special perspective and expertise, you should be prepared. Doing that preparation is important in understanding it from multiple perspectives and angles.

Noah Bolmer: As somebody who’s been in this business for a long time, are you ever concerned that you’ve said something at one point, and you have new information, or have changed your mind. You get impeached on the stand on something that you’ve said in the past that you don’t necessarily still agree with, or was perhaps taken out of context? How do you deal with those sorts of situations?

Mike Evans: I would hope that nothing I ever do is contradictory. My father used to tell me when I was a little kid, he said, “Say what you mean and mean what you say.” As long as you act with integrity at every step, that’s fine. If a lawyer is pushing you to say something that you’re not confident in, then don’t say it. You can—if they want to end the assignment, fine, end the assignment. If it’s a deal breaker, it’s a deal breaker. You’ve always got your integrity to carry with you, and if you violate that then you’re not going to last long.

Noah Bolmer: Have you found yourself on larger trial teams with other expert witnesses? Perhaps paralegals and assistants. Have you interacted with a full team, either in an arbitration or a trial, and if so, what are those interactions like? To what extent do you collaborate with the various parties of a trial?

Mike Evans: It’s interesting because there were a couple of times when I would walk into a room and say, “Here’s the team.” It’s five attorneys, only two of them I had worked with up until that point. I didn’t know who was senior to who. “Are you the partner?” “Are you in a senior associate?” “Are you the name partner of this firm?” Working with four or five attorneys is not uncommon. It’s something that you’re going to get used to. The dynamics can be interesting and if you say what you mean and mean what you say, like I said a minute ago, then you never have to back up and say, “Did I tell them X or did I tell them Y?” Well, you told them the truth six months ago so as long as you still believe that’s the truth, then you’ll be consistent. Again, if you keep your integrity and you stick with the truth, you don’t have to worry too much about “What did I say to this person” versus “What did I say to that person?” You’re telling the same story and your consistency remains. You might not have told them something because you didn’t have that discussion yet, but when you tell it to them, it’s going to be consistent with what you said to everybody else. That’s important.

Noah Bolmer: Before we wrap up, do you have any final advice for expert witnesses, in particular newer expert witnesses or even attorneys who are working with them?

Mike Evans: It’s funny, as I said, my father used to teach me, “Say what you mean, and mean what you say,” but my mother used to teach me, “If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” Not that you can’t be critical. In many cases we have to be critical but always be professional. None of this is personal so I wouldn’t get too emotional over any of this stuff. For me, I’m looking forward to more years of this as my career right into retirement. If I could do this for another ten or twenty years, I’d be happy and the way to do that is to keep your integrity. Start off on the right foot. Don’t compromise your ethics, and good luck to everybody.

Noah Bolmer: Outstanding. Mr. Evans, thank you for joining me today.

Mike Evans: Thanks, Noah. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate it.

Noah Bolmer: And thank you as always to our listeners for joining us for another edition of Engaging Experts. Cheers.

Mike Evans, Founder, VEGA Compliance Consulting

Mike Evans is the founder of VEGA Compliance Consulting, a risk management firm specializing in the financial services sector. Additionally, he has extensive experience in capital investments, hedge funds, and more. Mr. Evans holds an MBA from Stern.